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Rik- 07-24-2008
Ákat - as constructed by logoscript
I thought I'd start an new thread for this discussion - which Sano requested in the other Ákat thread. To give this thread a purpose, I'll try to show how - and why - the Ákat sentence ... àkifdavihxà!bat àfittinoicux (the horse carries a heavy load) ... ends up looking like this in the logoscript: Firstly, some practical details about the logoscript - the script is a recent development in the history of the language, which is itself is a 'reconstructed' language: the Nakap philosophers believed that the original language had been corrupted by time and wickedness, and sought to rediscover the original as part of their philosophical discourse (leading to a sort of 'warped' linguistics). - because of the artificial nature of the language, in particular the 'recovery' of core concepts and the uncovering of regularised grammatical and derivational rules, the development of the logoscript was made a lot easier. It is important to remember that the logoscript is tied more closely to the philosophical underpinnings of the language than it is to phonology, syntax or grammar. - the language is normally written in the commonscript (see example above). The logoscript is used for more artistic purposes. Books printed in the logoscript tend to be philosophical in nature. Among the wider public, the logoscript has found a home in signwriting, letterheads, posh invitations and announcements, etc. - the script is generally painted with a reasonably fine, flattish brush, or written on paper using a broad-nibbed pen (reflected in the glyphology of the example above). Children tend to learn the script alongside the teaching of the commonscript, though emphasis is given to the commonscript with logoscript activities being the more 'fun' part of the curriculum. - the script has been used for other Telik languages, particularly those used in the cities of southwestern Ewlah. These languages were the base material for the Nakap philosophers' development of Ákat, making the transfer of the logographs a little easier. - the man who came up with the first set of glyphs claimed he found them written on a cave wall high in the Arakush mountains, thus making them a good candidate for developing the script. While even his close associates considered the man to be a bit unhinged, and his story doubtful (he was not an avid mountaineer), people liked the proposal of developing a logoscript to help them investigate and explain the language. This happened around 350-400 orbits ago. Where is the script used? Here's a map. Note that the features and names have been rendered in the Gevey language, though the names of the key cities we are interested in are a reasonable approximation (to the Gevey speaker's ear/eye) of how the locals would pronounce the names: Questions are very welcome. For my next post, I'll talk about core concepts and their relationship to simple nouns and verbs.

Rik- 07-24-2008
Core concept glyphs
Core concepts are the bricks around which the Ákat language is built. They are not words, nor even roots; they are concepts - in the Nakap philosophical sense - from which object (and action) words are derived. What is important, in the context of this thread, is that each core concept has its own logograph. Actually, it might be worth debating how logographic the logographic script is. Personally, I think of it as a form of syllabic script, where the constituent glyphs each stands for a limited range of phonemes. But because of the clear pictorial look'n'feel of the core concept glyphs, I think I can get away with calling it a 'logographic' script on the artistic - though probably not technical - level. Anyway, back to the core concepts. All Ákat core concepts have a strict CVC structure, where C=ptkqfsxc and V=ieayou; some irregularities occur - the final C can also be a glottal stop, and the numerical core concepts have 'hn' in the initial position (which has annoyed some of the more pedantic Nakap philosophers over the ages, but there's not much they can do about it given that the glottal stop is found in some important words, like personal pronoun equivalents). Our sample sentence contains four core concept glyphs, easily identified (remember that the core concept is not the word): - speed - dealing with all aspects of velocity and speed, including fast, quick, slow; also horses - hand - all things to do with hands; also deals with giving and taking, presenting and receiving - surfeit - The concepts of overloading, taking more than required, filling things with other things - weight - all things to do with weight and gravity Note how general these core concepts seem. While some can be fairly specific, others are very wide-ranging. They can also seem to cover unrelated concepts: the 'weight' glyph looks like a camel not because camels are considered to be especially heavy animals, but rather because in several of the Telik languages (from which Ákat was developed) the words for 'camel' and 'heavy' were near-homonyms to each other. To make core concepts useful, they need to be turned into nouns - which I'll cover in the next posting.

Sano- 07-27-2008

This is surely becoming my favorite thread on this board. Please, continue.

Rik- 07-27-2008

Thanks, Sano. Just to let people know, this thread is exclusive to the Scriptorium; I have no plans to post it to any other forum. I'm hoping that the thread will not only entertain fellow Scriptorians, but also end up helping me refine the Ákat webpages - particularly if people ask questions about various concepts and stuff that they think need clarification or more detail. I'll start work on preparing the next post, covering noun classes and hopefully starting to answer questions like 'what are those squiggly signs at the bottom?' and 'why do some of the logographs wear pointy hats?' There may also be a prize for the first person to work out what's wrong with the siggy at the end of my posts ...

Rik- 08-01-2008

Before we move onto noun cases, here's a link to the current list of core concepts and their glyphs. If there's any glyphs which people find particularly ugly or meaningless, then let me know - it won't take too much work to try and improve|update them. Noun classes Simple nouns are formed by attaching a noun class prefix to a core concept. Ákat has five noun classes, based primarily on philosophical rather than phonological grounds. The noun class is demonstrated in the logoscript by means of a subglyph placed directly under the core concept glyph. There's also a surglyph that's particular to nouns: - The object surglyph is placed above the head noun's core concept glyph, and is used in both the agentive and patientive noun cases (the oblique case has a set of different surglyphs) - the first noun class is the people class, also known as the WA class as the class prefix in the singular is á. This class is used mainly for those objects most directly related to people. - the next class is the nature class (or JA class, à). As expected, most animals and some plants can be found in this class. - the made things class (TA class) is used for many things that are built or constructed, where some form of human intervention has taken place. - the fourth class is the thought things class (or NA class). Here we find objects associated mainly with the mind and imagination. - finally we have the dangerous things class (SA class). This is a rag-bag collection of things which in some way or another are considered to be potentially dangerous to the individual or the wider society. The key thing to remember about Ákat noun classes is that they are not an empirical (or for that matter a logical) division of the world, but rather a mix of philosophical and historical groupings. This is often most clearly shown in the JA class words, where the links between a JA noun and its sibling WA, TA, NA and SA nouns simply makes no sense until you realise that the association is based on cultural associations - particularly myths and stories which employ different animals as anthropormorphic metaphors for particular human (and even non-human) traits. Let's have a look at an example. The third core concept in our sentence is fit, which I previously translated as surfeit. In fact, the noun used in the sentence is àfit, a JA class noun which can be translated as hoard, load or pack. Here are the other simple nouns which are derived from this core concept: - ýfit obesity, fatness - àfit hoard, load, pack - tyhnfit stuffing material - nafit rich person - syhnfit bursting, explosion. You will have probably spotted that three of the above five examples are using noun class subglyphs which are slightly different from the surglyphs I listed near the top of this post. There's a good reason for this: the subglyphs also show a noun's number as well as its case. The number 'accents' are entirely regular; you can always tell a noun's class by looking at the left hand end of the subglyph. If people have understood the above, then this little exercise should be simple: have a look at the example sentence and try to work out the class of the other three 'words' (one of them is a verb, not a noun, but it is derived from a noun and carries that noun's class in its subglyph) ... hint: you should be looking at the squiggles below the horse, the hand and the camel. Oh, and the middle column doesn't have a core concept glyph in it.

eldin raigmore- 08-01-2008

It looks really impressive; both beautiful, and full of good ideas. I would be intimidated by trying to learn it, though. That doesn't mean that L1 speakers couldn't, of course.

Rik- 08-01-2008

It looks really impressive; both beautiful, and full of good ideas. I would be intimidated by trying to learn it, though. That doesn't mean that L1 speakers couldn't, of course. Thank you! As to the learning part, my subjective feeling is that it would actually be easier to learn then my other conlang, Gevey. Yes it is polysynthetic, and the romanisation of those long words looks fearsome, but because of its strangeness and its deliberate artificiality (a language invented within a conworld, rather than evolved within it) I think people would be more likely to follow the clause structures very closely as they learn - which are highly regular. The only difficulty would be memorising the words. Gevey, on the other hand, would probably trick people into being over-confident because it looks more like a user-friendly agglutinating language, when in fact the language breaks expectations in some very unusual and confusing ways. If anyone were foolish enough to attempt learning Gevey I expect they would get frustrated quite quickly, whereas with Akat they would face the steep learning early on and, once over that hump, would be able to progress to the more complex stuff quite quickly with few shocks in store for them. Of course, Akat is nowhere near as developed as Gevey. Maybe I'll be tempted to add in a few unexpected nasties as I go along ...

Rik- 08-04-2008

Noun number I've never been a great fan of simple dualities in my conlanging. So it should come as no surprise to anyone that Ákat distinguishes five numbers: singular, paucal, plural, nullar and undetermined. Number is demonstrated in the language through modifications of the noun prefix. Similarly, the logoscript uses a system of 'diacritics' to to show number on the noun's subglyph. These are: - singular (á or wa) - for count nouns this indicates one object; for mass nouns, a (relatively) small amount of the object - paucal (é or we) - for count nouns this (usually) indicates between two and five objects; for mass nouns, a (relatively) large amount of the object - plural (ó or wo) - for count nouns this (usually) indicates more than five objects; for mass nouns, a very large measure of the object - nullar (ú or wu) - for count nouns this means no (zero) objects; for mass nouns, it can mean a lack of that particular object, or a minimum amount of it (depending on the noun) - undetermined (ý or wy) - used by both count and mass nouns for describing the objects in general or abstract terms when they count or measure of them is irrelevant. Let's have a look at what this means for the nouns in our example sentence: àkif (trans: horse) - this is a count noun in the JA class, in this instance used as a singular noun. The paucal form is èikif (some horses, a team of horses); the plural is òikif (many horses, a herd of horses); the nullar is ùkif (no horses); and the undetermined form is ỳkif (horse). àfit (trans: pack) - this is again a count noun in the JA class, used as a singular noun. The paucal form is èifit; the plural is òifit; the nullar is ùfit; and the undetermined form is ỳfit. noicux - this is a mass noun in the NA class, in this instance used as a plural noun. If you check out the word "nycux" in the online lexicon (count nouns are always listed under their singular form; mass nouns under their undefined form), you'll find the following definition: general weight, lightness and heaviness; nacux='the light one', noicux='the heavy one'; when used comparatively (with 'fi') nucux=ligh-*test*-('"), nacux=lighter, neicux=heavier, noicux=heaviest - so in this case the word can be translated as "heavy". Numbers To round off this post, I might as well include the logographs for the number system. Ákat uses a base-8 counting system, including a sign for zero, which means the magnitude of any number sign is dependent on its position in the number: - hnis - 0 .......... - hnip - 1 .......... - hnit - 2 - hnif - 3 .......... - hnix - 4 .......... - hnik - 5 - hnil - 6 .......... - hnim - 7 There's also a set of numerical core concept glyphs based on the above glyphs which are used in complex nouns and the like. We'll look at how the logoscript (and the language) deal with numbers in a later post.

eldin raigmore- 08-05-2008

I would be intimidated by trying to learn it, though. That doesn't mean that L1 speakers couldn't, of course.Thank you! As to the learning part, my subjective feeling is that it would actually be easier to learn then my other conlang, Gevey. Yes it is polysynthetic, and the romanisation of those long words looks fearsome, ... ---CUT for space--- I was actually talking about learning the script as opposed to learning the spoken conlang. (But thanks for the post!)

Rik- 08-05-2008

I would be intimidated by trying to learn it, though. That doesn't mean that L1 speakers couldn't, of course.Thank you! As to the learning part, my subjective feeling is that it would actually be easier to learn then my other conlang, Gevey. Yes it is polysynthetic, and the romanisation of those long words looks fearsome, ... ---CUT for space--- I was actually talking about learning the script as opposed to learning the spoken conlang. (But thanks for the post!) Ah, right. I'm with you now. Interesting question. I'm not sure you could learn the script without some understanding of the language. I think this would go for any logoscript which doesn't employ glyphs for purely phonemic purposes? I've never attempted to learn Chinese writing, but I get the feeling that learning one of the languages/dialects that uses the script is necessary for any learning beyond the superficial (eg shop signs and the like). Possibly a subject for a separate thread?

Rik- 08-07-2008
Derivations
'Kay. This is the post I've been dreading, but there's no way of avoiding it. Let's talk about derivations. Ákat has a limited number of core concepts - around four hundred or so. While assigning each of those core concepts to a noun case can increase the word count fivefold (indeed, more than fivefold given the way mass nouns can be used to cover opposing concepts such as short|tall, light|heavy, etc), that's still little more than 2,000 object words in the lexicon. Hence the need for derivations. Ákat forms new words by combining a simple noun with core concepts in various ways to form a new noun. Now, if this was a tutorial about learning the language, we could avoid the subject of derivations just by learning and using the resultant word without having to worry about how it was derived. However, this is a tutorial about the Ákat logoscript, which was developed by philosophers interested in showing the origins of words in a highly graphical manner. Which means we need to have a little knowledge about derivation. Sorry. Now, each core concept can have a number of derivational models associated with it. Most have one or two such models, a few have none, a few have quite a few. Much of the early work of the Nakap philosophers was trying to identify and classify the various models, and then adapt and codify the models into the new language. The success of their endeavour can be questioned - they ended up with 18 different models, some with irregularities. The results of the work, however, were significant as it led to the development of a large number of "rescued" or "pure" words to replace existing words and phrases in the base language(s). Enough of this explanation lark; let's look at some examples: napix - art, an artistic endeavour napixkíf - a sketch, a drawing tyhnfos - beer tyhnfosêkìf - the Telik equivalent of aqua vitae The core concept kif (speed, and horses) has two derivational models associated with it. >>> The first of these follows the first derivational model (known as 'front marking') and is used in the sense of speedy or fast. Combined with the word napix - art - it results in the word napixkíf - a sketch or a drawing. >>> The second follows a different derivational model (model 7, also known as 'back marking with vowel insertion'). It is used in the sense of deliberate slowness. Combined with the word tyhnfos - beer - it results in the nasty looking word tyhnfosêkìf - which can be translated as 'alcohol', most usually a fairly tasteless spirit distilled from rice or barley. For us, the key point to note here is the subglyphs under the horsey's head - these are derevation markers. Each model has its own subglyph (currently I've devised 12 glyphs): - model 1 - front marking - model 2 - back marking - model 3 - open marking - model 4 - host reduplication - model 5 - vowel insertion - model 6 - front marking with vowel insertion - model 7 - back marking with vowel insertion - model 8 - nasal insertion - model 9 - non-sillibant replacement - model 10 - sillibant replacement - model 11 - general irregular - model 12 - numerical irregular The other key point is that the object surglyph (the hat) now extends over two core concepts, not one. This will hold true for any surglyph placed over a derived word. On a general point, this is one of those cases where the logoscript has little to do with the phonology or even the morphology of the language. Rather, it tracks the philosophical roots of words and the language - an important consideration for philosophers, but not that interesting to the wider society who make use of the script.

Sano- 08-08-2008
Re: Derivations
On a general point, this is one of those cases where the logoscript has little to do with the phonology or even the morphology of the language. Rather, it tracks the philosophical roots of words and the language - an important consideration for philosophers, but not that interesting to the wider society who make use of the script. Now, that is an interesting aspect of the script. The philosophers that developed this script, are they a sub-culture unto themselves? Do/Did they set on this/these projects for enlightenment of some kind, or for general knowledge and or aesthetic artistry?

Rik- 08-14-2008
Re: Derivations
On a general point, this is one of those cases where the logoscript has little to do with the phonology or even the morphology of the language. Rather, it tracks the philosophical roots of words and the language - an important consideration for philosophers, but not that interesting to the wider society who make use of the script. Now, that is an interesting aspect of the script. The philosophers that developed this script, are they a sub-culture unto themselves? Do/Did they set on this/these projects for enlightenment of some kind, or for general knowledge and or aesthetic artistry? The Nakap people were a subset of the Telik Nations - think of them as pro-*test*-('")ants (small p) who were reacting to a wider society whose morals and ethics they were unhappy with. I imagine them as a sort of environmentalist movement - back to nature, pure in thought pure in mind, like an arts'n'crafts movement who went a little further than the Euro AnC in the 1920s, but not as far as some of the more green-minded Nazis. A big part of the Nakap movement involved looking back to a Golden Age (as they imagined it) for spiritual and social guidance, possibly as a reaction to the constant change around them. For the philosophers among them, this included a belief that the language they spoke and wrote and thought in had somehow been corrupted by time and influence from other (possibly in their view lesser) languages. Hence the philosophical drive to recreate the original language hidden within the various Telik languages spoken at that time (the Nakap first started around 1,000 orbits ago). Because the philosophers approached the task using their philosophical tools rather than taking a more scientific approach (think creation science) the endeavour can be considered to be a fool's errand. However, in the disasters that have affected the conworld over the past millenium it is the Nakap societies who have survived and the Telik Nations that have failed. Most Nakap folk (who still call themselves Telik) speak languages descended from those Telik languages spoken a thousand orbits ago, but the Ákat language keeps a central place in the culture and is taught in schools - it's treated much as ancient Greek/Latin were treated in our 19th century: not much practical use, but necessary to learn if you want to do well in life. Does that answer the question?

kyonides- 08-14-2008

it's treated much as ancient Greek/Latin were treated in our 19th century: not much practical use, but necessary to learn if you want to do well in life. This means it's still practical, otherwise only scholars-like people would be the only ones learning it. tyhnfos - beer Well, maybe they're not such a thing as pure minds after all, he he he. What (other) kinds of hobbies do this people have? Why would they need to include such a "mundane" concept in their language and script?

Sano- 08-15-2008
Re: Derivations
Does that answer the question? More so than I could have expected...thank you. I am increasingly impressed and intrigued by your work.

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